Ridiculously low budgets jobs - Upwork please DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

[iriartejorge]

I think no one will disagree with me on this. It takes more and more time to find serious offers among all the crazy, ridiculously cheap proposals that people post. Upwork should seriously work on a series of filters so that job offers have a minimum of seriousness and find a fair balance between price and demand. What are your thoughts guys? Upwork can you comment on it please?

[clarekamala108]

I hear you. I see posts for people looking for a coach or psychologist for $10-$20, honestly now. For the ideal client I will compromise, but a client has to be willing to invest in themselves! 

[the-right-writer]

I have a colleague who counseled a client, and they took all the sessions and put them into a website on mental health.

[berg_shari]

Wouldn't that technically violate Upwork's TOS? If the client paid for counseling, they shouldn't be able to use the sessions and your colleague's expertise without permission on a website. Couldn't that cause licensing issues for your colleague as well? 

[the-right-writer]

There is no way to get the counseling back. Once it is delivered, and paid for, unless there is a stipulation, it belongs to the client.

No, it doesn't affect the freelancer because she did nothing wrong. She was doing tele-counseling and did not break HIPAA or any other laws. And the client is never going to make any money from it, anyway.

I mentioned the case because it's an example of how people can seem to have one goal, and then do something completely different.

[tlsanders]

I would suggest that she violated the therapist's rights to her own name and image. In addition, if the therapist didn't know she was recording, that's illegal in many states. 

[the-right-writer]

Late response, but I wanted to clarify. The sessions were not recorded, but extensive, detailed notes and specifics were made. That makes the situation different.

[bobafett999]

Use your power....

Don't Apply

[nycjoseph]

Try using the filters to reduce the noise...

[fred-derf]

I have done that. The filters do not eliminate the scammers. I work in video post-production.  One that shows up everday has a '$10,000 budget.' then you look in the proposal for this:  'Editing / Motion Graphics - $40 per video - Length of video: 8-12 minutes. - 3 videos per week'

An eight-minute video, with basic text, audio sweetening and color grading would take at least five hours. Of cours for 40 dollars I would take the original file, modify color grading, render, send her. That is all such a proposal deserves.

It woujld be super if Upwork would have some place we can send these idiotic, time-wasting proposals and put them in a 'Scammer' folder.

Yeah, it takes just a few moments to scroll through these familiar ones but so often there are others that I have to take the time to read and reject.

It's too bad, we are the ones footing the bill while these hucksters can post their bait-and-switch proposals without cost.

Perhaps Upwork should initiate a fee to those who list proposals. As far as I know, that does not happen.

My final thoughts: For nearly two years I had been busy with clients that hired me on Upwork. Now that I have to find new jobs it has been a huge time consumer. The 'connects' cost was raised too.

[the-right-writer]

Upwork says we are supposed to flag the job scams, and they will be removed.

[nycjoseph]

I think you replied to the wrong post. I didn't say it would eliminate the scammers, I said it would reduce the noise of "ridiculously cheap proposals", one of the OP's obstacles.

[fred-derf]

The filters do not reduce the 'cheap proposals.' Having a filter for jobs with flat-rate budget of over $2000 does not get rid of those which show budgets of $10,000. One has to swim through the ususally extensive job description to find out the real budget is $2. Yep, these should be flagged as 'looking for free work.'

How do you flag the scam buckets?

I also use 'expert' filter. So many asking for 'experts' show budgets of $5-40/hr. No expert will ever bid $5 for any job. This shows the client is cheap,  cheap, cheap.

[nycjoseph]

ok, help me understand what you mean, then. If I set a filter for $1K - $5K, a search right now shows this...

...I am not seeing the several jobs that are over $5K, and nothing under $1K is showing. Or, when you say "real budget", where is that?

[fred-derf]

 In business a budget for a project or a hire is the proposed hourly, or flat rate.

Annoying is that one with the red square, a budget between 14-100 dollars. What that looks like is the proposer is looking to get some quality candidates with the 100 extreme but has enough leeway to find something tolerable in the, oh...14-26 dollar range. The 100 is just a bait-and-switch.

Upwork should limit ranges to, perhaps 5-10 dollars.

[nycjoseph]

I see! That is a bad-faith algorithm and bad-faith employer, now I totally agree with you.

[tlsanders]

I've been hired on jobs with a range like that at a higher rate than the top end of their range. To me, that is the client saying, "I really have no idea what it will cost to get this job done to my standards" and determining that based on samples and proposals. 

Limiting ranges would force clients to make a wild guess about something they may have no means of estimating (just like the incredibly counterproductive forced fixed price budget does). 

[fred-derf]

Yes, I have had several jobs where my bid was close to the top of the range, but that was two years ago. As a matter of fact I had an ongoing job for about two years with a top-of-range bid. Even was given an increase!!!

As for clients saying 'I have no idea...' has some credence but a serious client will do some research before posting a proposal. 

A few samples in the attachment: The first hourly budget range: 3-50 dollars. Would any serious client even suggest $3/hour?

The middle sample: He's asking for 'expert.'  The top range is super, but no true expert in video post-production would go for the $20 low range. Not to mention the other two with 'expert' having low ranges of $3 and 4.

The bottom sample: This is totally unreasonable: Viral videos. No one can guarantee a video to go 'viral.' Again, asking for 'experienced' talent with a low range of $4 dollars.

I looked at this guy's hiring history. With 17 previous hires, nearly all were $3-4/hr. Flat-rates were about $20-30.

Yeah, we all can go through hiring histories to make determinations but that time spent gets no financial compensation.Two hours a day or so looking this type of garbage.

Upwork needs to initiate fees for those who post jobs. This will help prevent most scams. 

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

[the-right-writer]

Use a Boolean.

[2ef54d61]

Yup, I work in post-production too and I see it all the time.

Budget: $2000

And then they write "$3 per video" or whatever other parasitic nonsense. 

[iriartejorge]

Hey Joseph, thanks for taking the time to reply. Unfortunately, these filters are not very useful for me, in post-production, which is my area of expertise, you can find offers that sound good at first glance, but when you take the time to check the material they share, scripts, references, etc., the budget becomes very below actual market cost. When I come across these kinds of proposals I try to report them but I haven't received any feedback from Upwork, I really don't know if they do anything about it.

[nycjoseph]

You and James have enlightened me. My suggestion was naive!

[the-right-writer]

Just use a basic Boolean filter. But beware, Upwork forces you to endure scams because they limit the filters to 500 characters.

[spectralua]

Upwork won't do anything with that jobs. Connects wasting, jobs counter increasing, job feed fullfiling.

Saw how many applied there? This is answer. Such jobs will be posted a while someone will aplly. 

[fred-derf]

I considered the same thing about those posting almost-nothing jobs until someon bites the bait. 

What needs to be done here is to have a posting fee for those looking for freelancers. That will  probably discourage the scammers.

We can add a catch: Upon hiring a freelancer the fee is returned, with a percentage service fee...perhaps giving it to the one hired.

At this time I feel Upwork considers the freelancers, the ones who pay 10% of earnings as a big money grab.

I have no problem paying a fee, but eliminating the lower percentage after a certain amount is poor. Why should one keep paying that fee after earning $10,000? One-thousand dollars is more than sufficient.

[tlsanders]

Can you provide your in-depth analysis of the costs of running a freelance platform and the percentage of earnings that fall below 10% and above in order to explain how you have concluded that a cap of $1,000 in fees per client/freelancer relationship is "more than sufficient"? I am especially interested in your math given that the current system, which charges fees on all earnings for at least two years, has consistently proven INSUFFICIENT to keep Upwork out of the red. 

[nycjoseph]

Perhaps Upwork needs to get X'd like that other company did. 80% reduction in labor diet, still works! (?)

[tlsanders]

They just made a big cut in staff. Seems everything has gotten a lot worse since, including people with serious issues such as payment processing problems waiting several days for a response.

[tlsanders]

I don't need Upwork to help me vet postings. If the budget is too low, keep scrolling..it takes a fraction of a second.

[fred-derf]

Harumph. I wanted to flag a posting. Upwork says 'it is easy to flag' just push the 'flag' icon on the job posting.

Har har...I looked at many job postings and NOT ONE has the 'flag' icon.

Somehow, that does not fall into the 'easy' category.

Thanks in abundance.

[the-right-writer]

You have to open the job because you don't see it in the job feed.

[fred-derf]

Duh! Missed it. When the note about this said 'at the bottom' I was thinking about the bottom-bottom. Heh.

Thank you very much.

[santiagomichelle]

Good luck to the clients going for those super low rates—hope it turns out to be a bargain and not a headache!

[the-right-writer]

It won't. They'll be in the forum whining because someone they paid in pennies didn't do an expert job. And I will remind them, you get what you pay for.

Note to freelancers: Stop accepting dirt cheap jobs! Those $5.00 jobs will not help your profile, and will define your future.