How to report or flag a client who refused to pay

[124ce0a8]

I was hired to sew 2 swimsuit samples. Due to the nature of the job I couldn't be able to use the upwork tracker properly. I will not be able to be on the computer while sewing. So I had to manually enter most of my time.

After the job was done and ready to be shipped. She cancelled the contract and stop responding to me. I already have the feeling that she will not going to pay me due to unresponsiveness.

This morning I saw that upwork automatically refunded my pay back to the client.
The client refused to pay 13+ hrs of my time by probably not having enough funds or deleting her her verified payment method in the website.

As I looked at her reviews I saw that Im not the only one she refused to pay. I understand that due to the manual time entry theres nothing else I can do to get paid. Luckly I waited before mailing to her the items and before giving her feedback/ review.

My questions are:

1. How can I report and flag this client? ( I believe its her tactic to rip off the freelancers)

2. Since the client didnt paid me in full ( I only got paid on tracked hours) does that mean I have the right to use or resell the items I sewn for her?

[PradeepH]

Hello Erika,

Thank you for your message.

I am sorry to hear about your experience with a client. Please note that our TOS does not allow job posts that request physical work with no online deliverable such as sewing. That said, your job violates our TOS. Also, I noticed that your client’s payment was unsuccessful and we have already notified you about the same via a support ticket here. Any manual hours logged on the contract will not be covered by Upwork hourly protection.  Please don't hesitate to follow up with them on the same ticket if you have additional questions or want to report your client further. 

Please read these tips for avoiding questionable jobs about working safely through Upwork and how to report suspicious user activity moving forward. 

Thank you.

Pradeep.

[124ce0a8]

Yes. I would like her to get flagged/removed or banned from this website. Im just waiting for upwork to reply.

How do clients with verified payment will be charged unsuccessfully? Like, how do they do it?

[colettelewis]

---

Erika C wrote:
 [...]
1. How can I report and flag this client? ( I believe its her tactic to rip off the freelancers)

I hope that, since you have had a reply from a moderator here, Upwork will investigate the client. But you are right, there is nothing you can do about it yourself. 

2. Since the client didnt paid me in full ( I only got paid on tracked hours) does that mean I have the right to use or resell the items I sewn for her?

A tricky question because of the nature of your work and how much you were paid. Were you expected to pay for the shipping and did you pay for the materials? 

---

____________________

[124ce0a8]

I was paid by her for the part of preparing the patterns because that I have to use computer so I used the time tracker. And I only got paid about less than an hour by upwork hourly protection on 13+ hours sewing the items.

She bought all the materials from online stores. Nothing special on them.

[prestonhunter]

Erika, this client's failure to pay you has resulted in a significant number of hours that you worked for free.

You owe this client nothing.

Essentially this client nullified the contract.

YOU OWN all physical materials at this point. You can do whatever you want with them.

In order for the client to obtain ANYTHING from you at this point, she needs to pay you through Upwork, such as using the client-side "Send bonus" tool. If she pays you what she owes you, then she can begin to ask you to send her things that you have created as part of this contract.

Do you have the right to use or resell these items?

Yes.

Don't overthink this.

A very basic moral concept is in effect here, and this concept is supported by Upwork's written TOS:

The freelancer owns the work she creates if the client does not pay for it.

[124ce0a8]

Thank you.

[jr-translation]

---

Preston H wrote:

Erika, this client's failure to pay you has resulted in a significant number of hours that you worked for free.

You owe this client nothing.

Essentially this client nullified the contract.

YOU OWN all physical materials at this point. You can do whatever you want with them.

In order for the client to obtain ANYTHING from you at this point, she needs to pay you through Upwork, such as using the client-side "Send bonus" tool. If she pays you what she owes you, then she can begin to ask you to send her things that you have created as part of this contract.

Do you have the right to use or resell these items?

Yes.

Don't overthink this.

A very basic moral concept is in effect here, and this concept is supported by Upwork's written TOS:

The freelancer owns the work she creates if the client does not pay for it.

---

If the client paid the material, the freelancer can not just do whatever she wants with it. Imagine the freelancer would sell the items and the client returns the next day, pays, and askes for everything to be shipped. In order to have the right to sell anything created out of this material, the client has to agree to it. Just because a freelancer worked on an unprotected payment method does not mean the ownership of the material transfers to the freelancer in case the client fails to pay.

[prestonhunter]

Jennifer:

If YOU were the client in this situation, what would YOU do right now?

If you were the client, and if you wanted to be sure that you obtained these sewn items... how comfortable are you feeling right now?

[124ce0a8]

The client is unresponsive for almost two weeks now. I dont think she wants it back.
I messaged her
" since you refused to pay and unresponsive. I get it that you dont want me to send these items back to you"

I dont intend to sell them right away of course I'll wait to see what happens.

[prestonhunter]

Erika:

You are definitely doing the right thing here.

You have notified the client that you know she no longer wants these items.

But you are being patient.

I would have done the same.

[petra_r]

---

Preston H wrote:

The freelancer owns the work she creates if the client does not pay for it.

Do you have the right to use or resell these items?

Yes

---

Preston, you really, REALLY need to stop giving out this dangerous advice over and over again.

There are ENDLESS situations where the freelancer does not own the work product even if it wasn't paid for and can't just pop it into their portfolio or use it, let alone sell it to anyone else. 

Preston H wrote:

Jennifer:

If YOU were the client in this situation, what would YOU do right now?

---

That is completely irrelevant.

Stop telling people to potentially break the law. Whether the client would actually go and do anything about it is besides the point. That's like telling people to rob a bank if there is little chance of being caught.

[prestonhunter]

re: "Stop telling people to potentially break the law. Whether the client would actually go and do anything about it is besides the point."

I am not telling anyone to break any law. I am not telling anyone to violate Upwork TOS.

It is not clear to me where you are coming from with this. Because Upwork TOS explicitly supports what I am saying, but nothing in written TOS supports your position.

What is "dangerous" is for a client to hire a freelancer to do some work and then after the freelancer does the work... the client does not pay the freelancer.

As a client, I certainly do not want to take that sort of risk.

What will the freelancer do with the work, if I don't pay her for her work?

How much control do I have over the work that I didn't pay for?
Especially when Upwork TOS states that a freelancer owns the work if a client does not pay for it?

As a client, I would be extremely anxious about what happens with any work that I commissioned, and any files associated with that work, if I have cheated a freelancer.

How much rights does a thieving client have?

[jr-translation]

---

Preston H wrote:

re: "Stop telling people to potentially break the law. Whether the client would actually go and do anything about it is besides the point."

I am not telling anyone to break any law. I am not telling anyone to violate Upwork TOS.

It is not clear to me where you are coming from with this. Because Upwork TOS explicitly supports what I am saying, but nothing in written TOS supports your position.

What is "dangerous" is for a client to hire a freelancer to do some work and then after the freelancer does the work... the client does not pay the freelancer.

As a client, I certainly do not want to take that sort of risk.

What will the freelancer do with the work, if I don't pay her for her work?

How much control do I have over the work that I didn't pay for?
Especially when Upwork TOS states that a freelancer owns the work if a client does not pay for it?

As a client, I would be extremely anxious about what happens with any work that I commissioned, and any files associated with that work, if I have cheated a freelancer.

How much rights does a thieving client have?

---

Where does it say that the ownership of the material is transfered to the freelancer?

Upwork paid for the time used on the design, fine the freelancer owns the design, but not the material. Big difference.

[petra_r]

---

Preston H wrote:

I am not telling anyone to break any law. I am not telling anyone to violate Upwork TOS.

---

You have done, several times. This is not the first time we have this conversation.

Unfortunately, laws do not get trumped by your interpretation of the terms of service.

You've previously told people they own edited material for example, although they could never aquire the rights to the material they edited without the creator's say-so. 

In lots of cases, with lots of deliverables, it is indeed the case that the freelancer owns the deliverables if a client hasn't paid. But by no means in every case.

If (for example), the OP was sewing the swimwear items to the client's pattern, they only own the fabric (if they bought it) and not necessarily the finished item. In this case, the client bought and paid for the material. The client owns the material.

If someone is hired to edit a novel (or a photo for that matter) and the client doesn't pay, the freelancer can't do a thing with the edited work because they can't aquire ownership of it by editing it.

It's not as simple as you make it out to be.

[cha51]

Good day

Hi im new in Upwork and  my 1st client did not pay me instead they just let me wait I would  like to report them I have the full conversation in screenshot.

[LuiggiR]

Hi Charlie,

I noticed you do not have a contract for the job you're referring to. Further, Communicating outside of Upwork before a contract starts is a violation of the Terms of Service. A client suggesting taking communication outside of Upwork before a contract begins is a typical red flag. You may open yourself up to scams or fraud and lose Upwork Payment Protection.

I checked the job you were referring to and can confirm that it has been taken down for violating the Terms of Service. I want to remind you that a real client will never ask you to give them money to start working, cash a check for them, work for free, or provide your personal information. Whenever you encounter these situations, please report them using the available flagging options so the team can investigate further. Please take some time to read through this article for more information on how you can stay safe on Upwork.

[cha51]

good day sir the client only posts here at upwork but sadly I don't have enough credit, to send the application but at their post, there was a contact person in Telegram. I can send that conversation and screenshot to email.

[3b4a8fd1]

Yeah, that's a scam. And a violation of the Upwork rules/Terms of Service. 

[cha51]

Most of their post are Copy-paste/excel or spreadsheet. And sadly I'm one of their victims. 

These are the persons using Upwork to scam freelancers

 

  

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